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Sunday, September 04, 2011

Pretrib Rapture Scholar Wannabes



     Our fellow servant here at The End Times Passover blog, renowned author, scholar and Pre-Tribulation Rapture antagonist, Dave MacPherson, honors us by submitting an enjoyable presentation concerning his observations about the entire premillenial dispensationalism folly that still permeates the "water cooler" eschatological dialogue throughout most of America. Enjoy!

PRETRIB RAPTURE SCHOLAR WANNABES!

     To become a PH.D (Pretrib History Distorter) or a D.D. (Doctrinal Deviant), do the following:

     (1) MISSPELL THE LAST NAMES OF MANUEL LACUNZA, MARGARET MACDONALD, C. I. SCOFIELD, HAL LINDSEY, GRANT JEFFREY, TIM LAHAYE ETC.
     (2) STATE THAT MARGARET MACDONALD WAS A PLYMOUTH BRETHREN MEMBER, OR THAT JOHN DARBY WAS HER PASTOR.

     Wrong and wrong.

     (3) OR GUESS THAT MARGARET WAS AN IRVINGITE, OR THAT EDWARD IRVING WAS HER PASTOR.

     Wrong and wrong again.

     (4) ASSUME THAT MARGARET MACDONALD ORIGINATED "DISPENSATIONALISM."

     This "straw man" assumption by Jack Kinsella ("Is Dispensationalism a Recent Doctrine?," 8/11/11) is totally missing from all genuine scholarship, and Jack can't find her even mentioning that long word!

     (5) CLAIM THAT MARGARET'S PRIVATELY CIRCULATED 1830 RAPTURE "REVELATION" TAUGHT ONLY THE POSTTRIB VIEW.

     Longtime No. 1 pretrib rapture leader John Walvoord's "Rapture Question" proves (p. 105f) that Margaret's view (that only PART of the Church gets raptured) has long been a widely held form of the PREtrib view - and Charles Ryrie's 1981 "rapture" book and other pretrib works have purposely ignored Walvoord!

     Margaret's 1830 "revelation" saw "the one taken [before Antichrist's revealing] and the other left." The PART of the Church left on earth after the rapture was viewed by her collectively as "the Church" - the same wording used in the same way by later partial rapturists! (Google "X-Raying Margaret" and "Edward Irving is Unnerving.")

     (6) REPEAT THE FALSEHOOD THAT JOHN DARBY WAS DISPENSATIONALISM'S "FATHER."

     Darby wasn't original on any crucial aspect of that system including the "church/Israel dichotomy," the church being absent from a future "Jewish" tribulation, the "Jewish" book of Matthew, the "literal method," the "Gentile parenthesis," the "ruin of the church," and especially the "pretribulation rapture." Margaret was the first to "discover" pretrib in the Bible and she shared her novel interpretation only privately with others (spring of 1830). Rev. Edward Irving and his followers, who credited Margaret, were the first to publicly teach it (September of 1830) in the Irvingite journal "The Morning Watch." Darby didn't clearly express pretrib until 1839 - and when he did he plagiarized the exact same Rev. 12 "man child caught up" argument Irving had publicly used eight years earlier!

     (7) TRY NOT TO REPRODUCE MARGARET'S 117-LINE PRETRIB RAPTURE "REVELATION."

     But if you do, copy it like Thomas Ice who in 1989 copied it so quickly he somehow omitted a total of 49 words from different sentences - the same 49 words that Tim LaHaye left behind in his 1992 book "No Fear of the Storm"! LaHaye (pp. 168, 207) also came up with two different titles for Lacunza's famous old book - neither one correct! (Google "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)," "America's Pretrib Rapture Traffickers" (which reveals that Ice's "Ph.D" was issued by a school that was fined by the state of Texas for illegally issuing degrees!), "Pretrib Expert John Walvoord Melts Ice," and "LaHaye's Temperament."

     (8) DON'T LET YOURSELF QUOTE ACTS 2:34-35, ACTS 3:21, OR I THESS. 1:7-8.

     Why? They prove that Christ can't leave heaven ahead of time for a pretrib rapture!

     (9) READ PRETRIB INTO AS MANY PRE-1830 WRITERS AS POSSIBLE.

     Such writers used only double meaning or unclear phrases like "escape," "taken away," "before the general conflagration," "before Armageddon" etc. - but many of your readers will believe you if you assert that the ancient writers were really teaching pretrib!

     Even Walvoord couldn't find ANYONE before the time of Darby (whom Walvoord labeled as an "early pretribulationist"!) who taught pretrib, so Walvoord had to settle for only what seemed to be "imminence" (in three of the earliest church documents) which seemingly could fit into the pretrib scheme - and Walvoord even censored portions of the ancient statements which, when quoted completely, revealed the posttrib view! Is it possible that John Bray, Thomas Ice, Grant Jeffrey and some others can locate - or manufacture - evidence of pretrib before 1830 that even Walvoord couldn't find?! (To see exposures of those claiming to find pretrib before 1830, Google my internet article entitled "Deceiving and Being Deceived.")

     (10) IGNORE ARTICLES ON GOOGLE AND YAHOO LIKE "PRETRIB RAPTURE - HIDDEN FACTS," "PRETRIB RAPTURE DIEHARDS," AND "PRETRIB RAPTURE SECRECY."

     If you ignore this advice, at least take some tranquilizers first!

     (11) PLAGIARIZING IS EASIER THAN RESEARCHING. BUT TRY TO DISGUISE YOUR THIEVERY!

     If you think that stealing isn't a way of life for pretrib promoters (from Darby to LaHaye), you've never Googled "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal," or "Thieves' Marketing."

     (12) IF ALL ELSE FAILS, CLAIM THAT REV. 3:10 PROVES PRETRIB.

     Avoid Googling "Famous Rapture Watchers" which reveals how the greatest New Testament Greek scholars of all time interpreted it.

     Finally, I invite you to obtain my 300-page, highly endorsed online book "The Rapture Plot." What you've read so far in this paper is less than one percent of the mountains of documentation on pretrib rapture history in this book of mine. Some of my web articles, such as the ones listed above, are on various blogs (owned by my good friend Joe Ortiz) including "The End Times Passover" and "Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation." Joe is the author of two excellent books that biblically refute the Rapture to Heaven mythology, namely, "The End Times Passover" and "Why Christians Will Suffer 'Great Tribulation.' "

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

The internet never ceases to be utterly astounding and immensely informative! Without it, how would we ever be in a position to know what is going on, and has been going on for a long time, in the attention-demanding world of Bible prophecy? I am blessed to be the owner of splendid prophecy books by both MacPherson and Ortiz and happily recommend them to anyone reading my comments here. And this blog - THE END TIMES PASSOVER - is must reading for anyone anywhere who is curious about what lies ahead for the human race! My prayer is that many around the world will be drawn to the above writers and their much needed works. Rodrigo

Anonymous said...

Brother Joe: Your blog has to be in the top one percent of all prophecy blogs! And the article you just included here, by Dave MacPherson, can utterly blow away any open-minded pretribulationalist (excuse this long word). You and your wonderful blog are doing the world a distinct and much needed service. Please don't change! Doris

Joe Ortiz said...

Thank you both Rodrigo and Doris. We at The End Times Passover feel privileged and honored that such an accomplished author and Rapture apologist such as the renowned Dave MacPherson would choose our site to deliver his many insights to the origins of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture to Heaven doctrine.

While we try to provide our audience Bible-based data that refutes the Rapture myth, Dave MacPherson's research not only enhances our arguments against the premillennial dispensational polemic, but contributes more than strong arguments against "Rapturism" that our books did not consider nor were included in our research. We believe his material combined with our scripture based data provides the church with irrefutable and sufficient proof to counter all of the existing and damaging notions that have been put forth by theorists.

Anonymous said...

Wow, what a blog and what refreshing content for hungry minds! I'm sure you have heard of the "spare tire" argument which says that it's better to have a spare tire even if one never has a flat tire than not to have a spare tire when a flat happens. Likewise, I think it's better to be prepared for the tribulation even if it doesn't happen in our lifetime than not to be prepared and then finding ourselves in the tribulation! If a pretrib rapture should occur, those who prepared for the tribulation will be just as happy as the pretribbers.But if a pretrib rapture doesn't happen, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which group will be the least happy and will feel the most devastated and abandoned by their leaders! Being prepared isn't just for Boy Scouts, right? Thanks, Joe Ortiz, for keeping us on the straight and narrow! Mariana

Anonymous said...

I have a question for you - when Jesus returns with all the saints, to the battle of Armageddon -- will He be looking for faith?

If you say, "Yes," please explain that answer.

I see Revelation clearly showing us that the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will return to destroy the wicked with the sword of the Spirit that shall proceed out of His mouth. So, I do not see Him returning then where every eye will see Him, I do not see that return of the Lord as a time where He is looking for faith.

However, when He comes to catch away His Bride (according to the Jewish marriage customs that were in place when He taught of His coming as a Groom), He will be looking for faith then. Luke 18:6-8

This day is so soon to come that this is why the earth is filled with those who have done just as the apostles said they would -- they mock the promise of His coming for His Bride, as a thief in the night. And they are not living lives worthy of receiving this promise simply because they have not the faith TO receive it.

This is not unusual - many profess to know Him but in works deny Him. And many who say they have faith have not the works that God will accept. It is no marvel or wonder, for it is written: "Not all men have faith."

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joe Ortiz said...

Toni, I do say "Yes" and the complete answers are found in my two books, "The End Times Passover" and "Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation." If you cannot afford them, I will gladly send you FREE PDF copies. Simply send me your email address to Joe.Ortiz9299@gmail.com.

JO

Anonymous said...

Re the so-called Jewish marriage customs that someone mentioned earlier, there is a terrific article I recall reading on this END TIMES PASSOVER blog dated August 2, 2010. The title of that article (well worth reading) is "Read How Two Guys Tore A Jewish Wedding Ritual out of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Theory!"
Belinda

Anonymous said...

Dear Brother-in-the-Lord Joe, I want to thank you personally for your truthful and fearless and much needed blog that always squares with the Bible. I have been listening to the interviews you have guested on that are listed on the right side of your blogs - and you, sir, are one fantastic speaker with timely facts that are delivered with your golden voice. May you be blessed with good health and a long life, is my prayer. Sis. Gwen

nuggets4u said...

I found this teaching quite awhile ago and it deserves a look
http://www.gbible.org/_files/pdf/Doctrine_of_the_Rapture.pdf

Blessings! Gail

Joe Ortiz said...

Dear Nuggets4U:

If by using the word "Rapture" you mean that Jesus will descend from Heaven (secretly or visibly) to catch up His disciples back to Heaven, our two books provide more than sufficient scripture to prove this will not be the case. He will catch us up to have a meeting in the air with Him, as He descends to earth to rule and reign FOREVER!

I read your entire missive and see that you still use the traditional "premillennial dispensationalism" talking points, which, unfortunately still influence exegetes' polemics, regardless of how close they come to understanding the specific words God uses as He unveils His true plan. Yes, He rescues and protects His disciples (read Psalm 91), but there is no return to Heaven and there is no wedding to the church because the church is not the bride.

We do not believe in dominionism nor any doctrine concerning Christians solving the problems of humanity through politics or any other man-made solutions. Only the return of Christ to rule and reign on earth (for more than 1000 years) for eternity.

All of the other scripture points you make (while each on being true) do not coincide with their actual application as you posit. If you were to read both of our books, you would see scripture that confirms each point that we have made so far. If you like, you can download PDF copies of both from this blog site to examine the evidence we provide that negates many of your assumptions and misinterpretations.

Obviously it would be difficult to discuss all of the Bible data we provide to convince you that you are close, but not completely informed.

Regardless, as I believe you sincerely have a heart for Jesus and want to help enhance His kingdom, we pray God will provide you with Holy Spirit power of discernment as we all need to grow in His knowledge.

Joe Ortiz, author

Anonymous said...

There still are miracles and I have discovered one: The End Times Passover blog which packs more timely information for Christians than many books pack into hundreds of pages! Lord bless, I'm telling my friends to visit your blog, so please don't go anywhere, okay?
Ashleigh

Anonymous said...

There should be an Academy Award for prophecy blogs, Joe Ortiz. You would win it, for sure! Tony